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Ianto Lives

van gogh, starry starry night
Oh, the rumours, the rumours, the rumours...

And, of course, the accompanying speculation. Lately, I've noticed that a certain theory about the fate of our beloved teaboy has been getting a lot of circulation, and since I've been commenting all over the place about it, I thought I'd best gather all my thoughts into one location.

After the cut you can expect to find: Spoilers for season 2, including rumours about 2x13, rumours about next season, and praise for the goodness that is Ianto. (There is also a spoiler for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, if there's anyone in the world who hasn't read it yet).



So, word on the street is that our beloved Ianto may soon be headed for that big old coffee machine in the sky. It is enough to strike a chill into the hearts of any Torchwood fan (well, except those who don't like him, but I assume that if you're taking the time to read this, you're not one of them :)).

But I don't believe it.

I'm not here to diss the people who do believe it, of course; I've seen some well argued posts supporting the theory. And I am just as capable of being wrong as anyone. But in the hope that it might help a few people who are quivering with fear for the stopwatch lovin' Mr. Jones, I present my case that we have every reason to believe that Ianto survives this season, and will be back next year.

Firstly, to sum up all the points that suggest that Ianto might die:
NOTE: This summary contains points found in posts by jo02 and fodian, both of whom I respect very much; my arguments below present an alternative viewpoint, but they are in no way intended to disparage them.

1. There is a rumour, that has been posted on TorchwoodTV that a member of the team will die in 2x13. Elsewhere (I can't remember where, but I've seen it), there are suggestions that TW will have to make some sort of "ultimate sacrifice".

2. In this interview, conducted at the premiere of Season 2 (after shooting for the season had finished), GDL is asked where Ianto ends up at the end of the season, and he replies that he is "Jack's loyal soldier". Loyal soldiers, of course, die for their commanders.

3. There haven't been any rumours about GDL returning for the third season, and certainly nothing official.

Now, I have to admit, that when it's put like that, it's a little chilling. But before we start hyperventilating, let's take another look at each piece of evidence:

The "Ultimate Sacrifice" Rumour
Let's not forget that this is a TV show, which needs ratings to survive-- the more the possibility of a death is talked up, the more people will watch, which is ultimately good for us fans, because it means that the BBC is more likely to invest in the show. :) Just think about how many times the death of a major character in any TV show has seemed immanent-- only to be resolved successfully when you actually watch the show. Now, it's always possible that a character will seem about to die at the end of the Season, and this could be Ianto-- but I don't think that rumours of a possible "ultimate sacrifice" actually indicate that someone will definitely die-- just that someone's life will be in peril; and really, that's par for the course.

Jack's Loyal Soldier
Personally, when I first saw this interview (before I'd heard of the "Ianto dies" theory), I felt that the interviewer was trying to get GDL to make a statement about where things are going between Jack and Ianto romantically, and Gareth was struggling to find something that was honest, but didn't give too much away, so he went with stressing Ianto's loyalty to Jack, which is part of Ianto's character development that mirrors the growing relationship between the teaboy and the Captain. Of course, that does not mean that we should dismiss the possibility that his words had a deeper meaning.

We should also remember that, in fiction, it's not at all uncommon for characters to sacrifice their own lives only to survive the ordeal. Sometimes, the character's willingness to sacrifice his/her own life is, in an ironic twist, the only reason that they survive. The most well known recent example of this is Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, but there are plenty more (and plenty where the sacrifice isn't quite so Christ-like). If Ianto does show that he's willing to sacrifice his life for Jack (and let's face it, he probably would), it's completely possible that he will survive nonetheless.

No Rumours/Confirmation That GDL Staying
So far, we've heard lots of scary rumours about who might leave and who might join Torchwood permanently in Season 3. There are rumours that Tosh, Owen and Jack will be leaving, that Martha will be joining, that Gwen reveals that she is actually the Dalek-Queen... (actually, I made that last one up). The point is, that the rumours are all about people whose status might change next season-- so even if we take these rumours to heart, the only implication is that Ianto remains on pretty much as he always has been.

Of course, these rumours should really not be taken seriously. Burn Gorman has said he will be back for Season 3, John Barrowman has said he'll do the show as long as he's wanted (and there's no doubt that he's certainly wanted!), and the premise of the proposed "changes" is that Torchwood needs to become more family friendly so that it can fill in for Doctor Who while David Tennant is on hiatus, in spite of the fact that we already have the family-friendly Sarah-Jane Adventures. It also seems odd that Torchwood will fill in for Doctor Who if TW itself is only supposed to return for five more episodes (yet another ill-founded rumour).

As far as Ianto is concerned, this simply means that we can't say anything for certain unless there's some kind of official confirmation-- and we probably won't get that until after the Season finale, because at this stage, any sort of official confirmation would effectively be a spoiler! The lack of official information about whether or not GDL is returning to the show is completely neutral, and cannot be interpreted one way or another.

*****************

Okay, so I've presented a rebuttal against arguments that Ianto is doomed, but I do confess that my arguments here only balance the possiblities-- they provide an alternative interpretation of information, but ultimately, my interpretation is only as good as the next person's. But that's okay-- I still think Ianto is safe, and the clincher is Gareth David Lloyd's recent AfterElton interview. Now, Gareth was very clearly holding back spoilery information in this interview, and he was trying to keep his answers relevant to Season 2. But I think if we analyse his responses closely, we get some clear indications that he's planning to be around for Season 3.

The biggest clue, is that Gareth always talks about Ianto in the present tense-- of course, some of these questions pertain to currently airing episodes, but some of them are also broader, more about Ianto in general than any specific incidents involving the character. Generally, people don't refer to the dead in present tense (unless it's Owen, but that's different). "But," I hear you say, "might that not be a clever red herring? Could he not be carefully regulating his answers so as not to give anything away." Well, he certainly might be clever enough to make sure he always speaks in present tense, but if we look more closely, we can see that there is more to it than that.

Early in the interview, many of the questions focus on the relationship between Jack and Ianto. It's clear that most of the answers pertain to Season 2 and nothing more, but then we get this:

AE: But Janto fans in particular shouldn’t be giving up hope that something might happen at this point?
GDL: Absolutely not – no. Absolutely not. Nothing’s being said and it looks like that’s the way it’s going, so it should be fine.


Let's remember that this interview was conducted only recently, and GDL knows exactly what happens in 2x13. Knowing that, Gareth's "Nothing's being said" and "it should be fine" indicates that he's now talking about the future: in fact, he switches from present to future tense. While he indicates that he doesn't know for sure what's in store for Ianto in the future, the way that he phrases it suggests that he knows that there is a future for his character. If Ianto was going to die, it would have made more sense for him to say something more along the lines of "There's more development, but you'll just have to wait and see" rather than saying something that specifically refers to the character having a future beyond what the actor himself knows.

Then there's also this:

AE: There has been a lot of crossover between the two shows. Do you think Ianto will ever appear on Doctor Who?
GDL: I can’t say anything like that.

AE: Oh, okay! I think I’m asking you some of the wrong questions. Moving on . . . . you were recently chosen the fifteenth sexiest man in Wales.
GDL: Yeah, I read that in the local paper and I thought that was quite flattering.

AE: What do you need to do to break the Top 10?
GDL: Probably an episode of
Doctor Who.


The way I'd most like to interpret this little exchange is that Ianto will put in an appearance in Season 4 of Doctor Who, because as Jack's loyal soldier, he refuses to let Jack leave on his own again. That, however, is mostly just wishful thinking. The rational (but less fun) side of my brain tells me that Ianto is unlikely to put in an appearance this Season, BUT I think that Gareth's "Probably an episode of Doctor Who" indicates that this is still at least a possiblity for the future. If it was not a possiblity at all, then I think the natural thing to do would be to say something vague about his future plans.

And finally, there's this:
AE: We know Torchwood has been commissioned for a third series – congrats on that. A reader asks, If you could have a wish list of one thing that you would want to happen with Ianto on series three, what would that be?
GDL: I haven’t really thought of it actually. Maybe a surfacing of some more depth of darkness and anguish – that would be quite fun to play.


Again, he indicates that he doesn't know much about Season 3-- but he's not at all vague with the implication that he will actually be there.

Remember, there is a difference between trying not to give information away, and trying to deceive your audience. In all of these examples, if it turns out that Ianto dies, GDL will not have simply been evasive, he will have been outright deceptive-- and you know, I don't think he'd do that. You can be deviously vague, you can say things that are open to multiple interpretations, but it's just not good form to outright deceive your fans, and I really don't think that GDL would do that! If he was really leaving, I think he would have been far more vague about the possiblity of a future at all-- instead, he's only vague about the details of that future-- but it seems quite clear that there will be a future for Ianto-- and that, my friends, means that he will not die in 2x13.

Again, I want to stress that I don't think that the people who disagree with me are crazy-- as I said at the beginning, I can see how the evidence adds up when you look at it in a certain way. But I think that when you look at the larger picture, Ianto's death seems less than likely. Of course, when you get down to it, all any of us can do is wait and see. :)

And now, I'm going to bed. :)

Comments

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hel_bee
Mar. 16th, 2008 02:09 pm (UTC)
Well reasoned... I think the AfterElton interview was the clincher for me when I read it. Also my dirty mind sees loyal soldier rather differently ever since the mention of the UNIT cap ;) - which of course GDL would have known about LOL

One potential plot (and if it doesn't heppen it would make a great fan fic) would be for Ianto to fall into the Rift... this would leave him open to either Dr Who episode or to the start up of season 3 with the team finding him and getting him back.

Anyways I'm not worried... fandom will survive either way... afterall in my last 2 fandoms I shipped Snape/adult!harry in Potter and Tucker/Reed in star trek enterprise - Neither Snape of Tucker survived... didn't stop me though ;) and we do already have 2 J/I seasons in the bag... never had a OTP who was canon before- warms the cockles of my heart :D
lefaym
Mar. 16th, 2008 07:44 pm (UTC)
Also my dirty mind sees loyal soldier rather differently ever since the mention of the UNIT cap ;) - which of course GDL would have known about LOL

ROFL, I hadn't even thought of that. :D

I've seen at least one fanfic about Ianto falling into the rift already... I think (though I'm not sure) that it was by sam_storyteller.

And, I see Jack as actually being part of several MTPs myself, where the M stands for Many. :) I mean, I love Jack/Ianto, but it is kind of... doomed... by the whole immortality thing, and I still have a soft spot for Jack/Ten.
(no subject) - hel_bee - Mar. 16th, 2008 08:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
doyle_sb4
Mar. 16th, 2008 02:16 pm (UTC)
It's starting to look very likely the two deaths are Tosh and Owen. I think Ianto's quite safe.
theshrub_eline
Mar. 16th, 2008 03:19 pm (UTC)
can't be owen is allready dead but maybe he tries to save tosh from someting and they get stuck in the rift or another dimension or so they'd be togheter for evah!!

and maybe it's time for ianto to get some action i mean the last couple of episodes yeah he had action allr ight but not enough we need more info abut him!!!!
(no subject) - doyle_sb4 - Mar. 16th, 2008 05:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - lefaym - Mar. 16th, 2008 07:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - doyle_sb4 - Mar. 16th, 2008 08:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
sheryden
Mar. 16th, 2008 02:16 pm (UTC)
I'm glad you posted this. The whole fatalistic "Ianto's going to die" talk has been really uncomfortable for me. I don't think the writers would kill off a character they know has a huge fan base. And the Ianto-haters can disagree all they want, but Ianto has an incredibly active fan base.

sarahh1278
Mar. 16th, 2008 03:58 pm (UTC)
That's what I was thinking. Ianto's incredibly popular (even without pairing him with Jack). I can't see how the powers that be would get rid of him. However, since he's so popular, seeding fandom with rumours of his impending demise would generate lots of speculation and hype for the season finale. That I can see them doing.
(no subject) - lefaym - Mar. 16th, 2008 07:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
grey853
Mar. 16th, 2008 02:37 pm (UTC)
I hope you're right. Without Ianto, I'd probaby stop watching the show with any real interest other than to see Jack. I'm not overly fond of any of the other characters, especially Gwen or Owen. I was kind of hoping Owen would die and stay dead.

Of course, that's the thing about Torchwood. People get killed but they don't have to stay that way.
lefaym
Mar. 16th, 2008 07:50 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I'd have a hard time watching it without Ianto, even if Jack was there.

But I don't think we'll need to worry. :)
(Deleted comment)
lefaym
Mar. 16th, 2008 07:53 pm (UTC)
Yeah, a cliffhanger is more than possible-- it would be very cruel, of course, but that's the nature of television. :)

It will be interesting though, if it is a cliffhanger, as to how they then get Jack into Doctor Who-- I mean, could he leave the team if Ianto's about to (apparently) die? And if Ianto is on his (apparent but not actual) deathbed, how will that affect Jack's interaction with the Doctor?
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - lefaym - Mar. 16th, 2008 09:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - lefaym - Mar. 16th, 2008 09:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
dangerous_47
Mar. 16th, 2008 03:00 pm (UTC)
So I was kind of WTF!? when I first read your post (I didn't read the HP spoiler because i must be the only person in the world who hasn't read it yet. lol.) but I didn't know there was that rumor about Ianto.

But I want your post to be true and I think your right about GDL and all. :D

And obviously people like different char's, but I didn't know there were Ianto haters out there. I guess each char might have their haters. But who could hate Tosh? *Wide eyed* she's like adorable and you just wanna hug her.

Sorry, a lil off topic. lol. But I don't want her to die either.

The person I might mourn the least would be Owen I guess. Once that might have been Gwen, but then I'd feel really sorry for Rhys and I like him. lol.
lefaym
Mar. 16th, 2008 07:58 pm (UTC)
I haven't seen any Tosh haters out there-- as you say, who could? :)

One of my worries about writing this post was that maybe people who hadn't encountered the rumours would suddenly start panicking about them-- sort of like that sketch where John Cleese is a pilot, and accounces, "Ladies and Gentlemen, there is no cause for alarm!" (And shame on me, I don't remember if it's from Monty Python or How to Irritate People).
(no subject) - dangerous_47 - Mar. 16th, 2008 08:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
erin_giles
Mar. 16th, 2008 03:24 pm (UTC)
I've been trying to avoid spoilers about the final eps of the second season, but I can't seem to get away from this particular rumour that's flying about. I like to think it'll be a Harry Potter esque type moment or Ianto will die but then something will happen with a timey whimey device and it'll all be ok!

The one other thing that I remember reading somewhere (think it was an interview in Stardust or something with GDL) was that he was talking about being trapped under half a building at one point, and it being very difficult and painful to film. This has me worried that our tea-boy may be greviously injured in some way but dead - I refuse to believe it! Even if ALL my favorite characters in all my other fandoms have bit the dust - I'm clinging onto the tea-boy dammit!
smirnoffmule
Mar. 16th, 2008 04:54 pm (UTC)
The trapped in a building scene looks like it's going to be in 2.12, so I think we're safe with that one :)
epsiode 12? - lucy_harkness - Mar. 16th, 2008 05:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lefaym - Mar. 16th, 2008 08:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
wiley_nilly
Mar. 16th, 2008 03:35 pm (UTC)
I thought I had another clue
A couple of weeks ago I was looking on IMBD.com and saw that Burn Gorman was listed as 'supporting cast' for the last 5 episodes. I thought, hmmmm and sent it to a friend, who also went hmmmm. Right now, I went back to look so I could link it here and (voile) he's back up top with everyone else. Very interesting.

Just sayin'.
tigercheetah
Mar. 16th, 2008 06:35 pm (UTC)
Re: I thought I had another clue
Burn, Gareth and Naoki have *always* been the supporting cast, whereas John and Eve have always been the leads - although I suspect that Burn has a slightly higher status than Gareth and Naoki.

Re: I thought I had another clue - wiley_nilly - Mar. 16th, 2008 06:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: I thought I had another clue - doyle_sb4 - Mar. 16th, 2008 07:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: I thought I had another clue - wiley_nilly - Mar. 16th, 2008 07:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: I thought I had another clue - doyle_sb4 - Mar. 16th, 2008 07:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: I thought I had another clue - lefaym - Mar. 16th, 2008 08:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
hooganaka
Mar. 16th, 2008 03:42 pm (UTC)
I really hope your right there.
When the second series began I was really worried he would get bumped off, as he seems to be alot more involved this season than last. [And just to add to the Harry Potter] In the last book Fred Weasley also seemed to be alot more involed than usual, then next thing you know hes dead :(. So got a tad bit worried. But I really dont think the writers could do that to Ianto, I mean Torchwood/Jack without Ianto is just a scandal lol.
But still sad that people are going to die at the end, i think everyone in the Torchwood Crew are awesome :D
lefaym
Mar. 16th, 2008 08:10 pm (UTC)
How was Fred more involved than usual? I think that his involvement in Deathly Hallows was pretty similar to in previous books-- a sort of second-tier supporting character. He and George did plenty in that sort of role in previous books, such as giving Harry the map, and creating havoc for Umbridge.

I think that killing Ianto would be more like killing Neville, whose role was much more significant-- and Neville made it out just fine. :)
(no subject) - hooganaka - Mar. 17th, 2008 06:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
domluver
Mar. 16th, 2008 04:02 pm (UTC)
So well thought out. I really don't think Ianto is going to die. I mean he was supposed to die in the first series but became such a cult icon that they decided not to kill him. I think they will try to stick with that, other wise they could lose a lot of viewers. Also that and this Ianto death rumor is news to me, I heard that Gwen would be the one to die at the end of Series 2.
viggofest
Mar. 16th, 2008 04:07 pm (UTC)
What a cute icon! Scott looks so much more into it from this angle than from the video clip I've seen of this.
(no subject) - domluver - Mar. 16th, 2008 04:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lefaym - Mar. 16th, 2008 08:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
viggofest
Mar. 16th, 2008 04:06 pm (UTC)
I think it would be hard for TW to justify or even just make plausible the death of another character. We had Susie last season, Owen this season, and Jack every third episode. That can't keep bringing them all back--it strains credulity/credibility. (As far as a sci-fi/fantasy show has that.)
Owen can still "die" in that the dissipating energy could wind down (remember: 30 minutes or 30 years.) So I could see him giving up something for the others, but the idea of Ianto sacrificing himself for Jack doesn't make sense. Jack will come back.
Sure, some instinct might have Ianto throwing himself in front of a gun without thinking, but I don't think--or I don't want to think--that the BBC would screw with viewers when they have a growing hit on their hands.
It's a different case if the actors want out, but aside from John Barrowman's interview (somewhere) that Season 2 was incredibly tough to shoot because it ran long, it was disorganized, etc., etc. and that he'd have to think really hard about going back, the facts seem to be a) the rest of the cast is happy to be part of a worldwide hit, and b) we have to ask the Big Question: is there a Torchwood without Jack?
All of this is my way of saying that while I don't buy into a Ianto season finale "completely dead" death, I do appreciate your thought process here and the discussion it provokes. We need some way to distract from the fact there are only 3 eps left (on the UK schedule)!
:-)
lefaym
Mar. 16th, 2008 08:16 pm (UTC)
Oh man, does anyone have a link to that interview? That's kind of scary.

No, I don't think there really could be a Torchwood without Jack-- Jack-lite episodes, fine, but if he just becomes a guest star-- that would be bad. Honestly, if JB wants out, the best thing they can do is wrap up the show, and make sure the characters are absorbed into the Whoniverse.
(no subject) - darthhellokitty - Mar. 16th, 2008 10:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
xel1980
Mar. 16th, 2008 04:25 pm (UTC)
Oh! I'll take my time to read it carefully! But I have to say to don't worry about it 'cause our fave teaboy will live... and I know it for sure... :)
elinor_godwin
Mar. 16th, 2008 04:43 pm (UTC)
You know, other than worried fangirls, there is not a sliver, not even a hint of a rumor that Ianto dies. Anywhere at all. Stop worrying.
lucy_harkness
Mar. 16th, 2008 04:55 pm (UTC)
i was starting to get scared for a moment then!!! If Ianto did that, then loads of Torchwood fans would be gutted and try to brake into the BBC, because as most of us know (if you surport Jack/Ianto or not) That most Torchwood fans, surport Jack/Ianto.

After reading the AE Interveiw, GDL says There’s more to find out about that relationship later on in the series." When he's talking about Jack and Ianto, so that means the rumors of the shirtless snog in 2X11 is getting closer and more true.

But i can understand bother points of this post. But im betting my money on something that IF Ianto DOES die, Then Jack will bring him back some how, maybe a good old fashioned "Kiss Of Life"? (i know, im not fangirl and messed up to think normally) ;P
michael_the_car
Mar. 16th, 2008 04:59 pm (UTC)
I hope you are right, because I think RTD will be shooting himself in the foot if he does kill Ianto. The relationship between him and Jack is a breath of fresh air, and there is still so much of the character to explore, be it his back story or his relationship with Jack.

To be brutally honest, there are many SciFi programs out there that are much better produced than TW, (the BBC still have a lot to learn about CGI etc). I know people will howl at that comment, but BBC Wales just does not have a Hollywood type budget and it shows in the finished product. That said, I think the majority of TW's audience watch it for the character interaction... J/G, J/I or simply Owen's sniping,Tosh's pining over the unobtainable or Rhys' downright ordinariness.

To remove one of the pivotal characters and reduce the program to the usual leading man/leading woman (be they Jack /Gwen or Martha or Tosh or whoever else comes to mind) mush we can see any day of the week, will have a sizable chunk of its audience simply switching off. And I can't think for one moment that RTD is that stupid. What started as a minor character to killed off in 1:04 has developed into one of the main focus points in series 2. It would be easier to dispose of Tosh or Owen and cause less disruption.

It is reminiscent of MUNCLE, Solo was supposed to be the fan focus, with Kuryakin as his barely registering-on-the- radar partner, and we all know what happened with that program.

In TW Jack maybe the studio's nominated main character, but it is Ianto who has generated the cult following amongst the fans. Even Gwen would be easier to replace, self- inflated, sanctimonious women are two a penny and any pretty face can step into the slot. (Eve Myles fans, please don't take offense, I simply mean female leads are a disposable commodity and easily interchangeable, nothing personal against the actress.)

If I'm wrong, I, for one, will stop watching what would become just another second rate program, and keep to fanfic
love_jackianto
Mar. 16th, 2008 05:36 pm (UTC)
Great post. I had not heard this rumor before (I've heard it for every other character *but* Ianto). I really don't think they will kill off Ianto, for all the points you mentioned. He has quite a large fan base and whilst they might have been able to kill him off in Series 1 (when he was basically a minor character) without much fuss, killing him off now (when he's a central character/love interest) would alienate quite a few people. Even if the do kill him in the Series final he could always come back, that seems to happen quite a bit on sci-fi shows in general (StarGate's Danial Jackson).
gypsylady
Mar. 16th, 2008 06:42 pm (UTC)
I've been thinking about the rumors of multiple deaths in 13 and I have a feeling the beloved character who goes to the cutting room floor in the sky will be Rhys. I say this because I recall an interview with someone (might have been RTD) who said that the initial plan was to kill Rhys at the end of Series 1 but he proved so popular and everyone on set loved working with Kai Owen so they kept him alive. If any beloved character is facing danger of demise, it'd be Rhys just based on that.

And it would surprise me not one iota if Owen were to die in 13, really die, energy fully dissapated and everything, only to come back because of something whimbly-whimey-made-up-shit about the energy being replaced by something. (Suddenly I find myself humming Voltaire's "USS Make Sh*t Up)

The Ianto-based rumor I read (and it was a Jack rumour with Ianto mentioned) was that Jack was going to be a minor character in Series 3, showing up once in a while because he's gone somewhere to do something else and as an afterthought the rumor-monger suggested that Ianto would go with Jack and thus possibly appear on rare occasion, too. I'm dismissing that one because of Barrowman's comments about feeling comfortable and natural in Jack's coat. I can't picture Torchwood without Jack Harkness. It was a vehicle for Barrowman as Jack, after all, not a vehicle for more of the Doctor dealing with the problems that Torchwood creates.

Just my couple of coins worth (I'd say two cents but I'm thinking better than half of the people reading this don't carry the little Lincoln-headed things around -- and I'm including a number of Americans in that number...) I'll stop rambling now.
lefaym
Mar. 16th, 2008 08:50 pm (UTC)
Oh, but Kai Owen has definitely confirmed that he will be back for Season 3-- in fact, I believe that some "big changes" comment he made at a signing has been fuelling much of the speculation about JB going part time etc.

He also apparently mentioned that they were due to start filming in August, which is scary in terms of the 5-episode Season rumour, although I think it quite possible that Kai is due to start filming in August, since he appears less than the other characters.
(no subject) - gypsylady - Mar. 16th, 2008 09:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lefaym - Mar. 16th, 2008 09:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
esporamor
Mar. 16th, 2008 07:06 pm (UTC)
Thanks so much for the analysis, I really really liked it, though it still leaves the awful fact that two of them are indeed going to die, but I really hoping so so much it's not Ianto, I couldn't watch Torchwood without him.

But, I was wondering considering someone in a previous thread mentioned wether if Jack (Dr. WHO spoilers coming up!!) will give an explanation to leave again when he goes to Dr. Who, what if in the horrible case Ianto is indeed the one to get killed off, that set off Jack crazy and just leaves? Or maybe he leaves to find a way to bring Ianto back? I'm overanalyzing again.

anyway, thanks so much for your explanation, I can't beileve it's almost over and then to wait almost a year!!
lefaym
Mar. 16th, 2008 08:52 pm (UTC)
though it still leaves the awful fact that two of them are indeed going to die

That too, is unconfirmed. We won't really know until we see 2x13 :)
_varda
Mar. 16th, 2008 07:55 pm (UTC)
Great post!

Another thing to keep in mind is that GDL mentioned Ianto's "I know" line from 'From Out of the Rain' at a convention. He said he intonated that line like that to give the writers a little 'toy' to play with for the future developement of Ianto. He's not sure if they will do something with it, but that they might if they like it enough. That and the After Elton interview are enough for me to believe that Ianto will survive.

Also, he has a huge fan base and most of the Torchwood fans I know will stop watching the show if Ianto dies. I really don't think the BBC will take such a risk.

Besides, are we even sure two of them will die? Who said that? Rumours are easy to create, even more so on the web. Post something, say you're an "insider" and there you go; fandom will explode! To hint at a deadly ending for one or more of the regulars does create tension, which is exactly what the BBC wants, but to actually have them pull through and do it would surprise me. A lot.

Besides, did anyone ever think that it could be someone outside of Team Torchwood? PC Andy perhaps? Or something else, like Myfanwy or Janet? Or maybe Jack will have to sarcifice his brother for the 'greater good' - perhaps even choose between Gray and one of the team. How dramatic would that be? The possibilities are endless if there will be deaths after all.

So I wouldn't worry about our dearest Ianto. It's not good for our health. ;-)
smirnoffmule
Mar. 16th, 2008 08:22 pm (UTC)
Noooooooo! Not Myfanwy! D:
(no subject) - lefaym - Mar. 16th, 2008 08:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
galaxy_song
Mar. 16th, 2008 08:58 pm (UTC)
Oh great post.

I realy dont want any one to die not even Gwen
God I hope Ianto doesnt die he cant maybe he does get hurt but he has Jack to give him so called CPR in others words snogging him better.

When it comes to Janto I just about exploded when i read what heppens in episode 11
lefaym
Mar. 16th, 2008 09:00 pm (UTC)
When it comes to Janto I just about exploded when i read what heppens in episode 11

Oh I know. I can't wait. :D
(no subject) - galaxy_song - Mar. 16th, 2008 09:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
webeh
Mar. 16th, 2008 08:59 pm (UTC)
I'll admit that I'm not as attentive as you, but I do believe that Ianto will at least stick around for season three. Why? For one thing, his story doesn't seem anywhere close to finished. We've got some development for him this season, but it's nothing incomparison to say Owen. With the way Owen's being written this season, I would not be surprised if he left at the end of the season.

However saying that, I honestly do think Ianto is a character that is meant to die at a young age. The way he's written, it just sounds like that the character is meant to be one with a tragic end. So unless we get a drastic change (story, characterization, personal-life, etc) in a later season, I'm fully expecting poor Ianto to kick the bucket before the show ends.
addyke
Mar. 17th, 2008 02:04 am (UTC)
I'm with you on that one. Although I hope that he'll last at least another two seasons (because the writers are nowhere near finished with him yet, there is still so much you could do with the character) I honestly believe he is not going to reach his thirtieth birthday (he's in his mid-twenties now). Ianto is the youngest of the team but he seems very old for his age and he is the one character with an accute awareness of his own mortality. Old age is a luxury some people aren't supposed to have and I know in my gut Ianto is doomed. Plus, it is my own belief that Jack/Ianto relationship can only end with Ianto's death. (shameless shipper I know)
Actually if he died before the show ends, it would open up a lot of storyline possiblities with Jack... grief, revenge - interesting concepts...
Just not for a few seasons yet.
(no subject) - lefaym - Mar. 17th, 2008 02:15 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tigercheetah - Mar. 17th, 2008 08:14 am (UTC) - Expand
ceindreadh
Mar. 16th, 2008 10:04 pm (UTC)
Thank you for your logic and rationality which is going some way towards calming me down with regard to Ianto's fate.

I'm not sure whether it's a good or bad think that Ianto/GDL hasn't been mentioned at all either in the spoilers for ep 13 or the rumors regarding S3.

On the one hand it does look like he's going to survive, but if Season 3 is going to be the Gwen and Martha show with brief glimpses of Jack, I think I'd almost prefer if Ianto left as well - preferably alive. At this stage I can see myself having a lot more free time when S3 coms around.
lefaym
Mar. 16th, 2008 11:00 pm (UTC)
The rumours about a shorter Jack-lite Season 3 are just that at the moment-- they might have some basis in fact, but they might not. We can only wait and see on that front-- I'm guessing we'll probably learn something after the season finale.

Your icon is made of win. :)
maxine_mirkwood
Mar. 17th, 2008 02:19 am (UTC)
If you want more to support your theory, I think it's very clear indeed that the BBC know how popular Ianto and Janto is with the fanbase when you look at both the additional material on the BBC and BBCA websites and the current crop of tie in novels. I think the novels are particularly significant when you think about how much on the "inside" the writer of The Twilight Streets was - there's hints about things from episodes all the way up to what we've seen (and for all we know, beyond) and those books are not that quick to produce.

I think our favourite Tea Boy is safe, I think we're just scaring ourselves with a Torchwood version of watching from behind the sofa. :-)
electrictoes
Mar. 17th, 2008 07:01 pm (UTC)
Can I just add this to support your theory;

Have you started shooting Season 3 yet?
No. I haven't had a 100 percent confirmation on that but I think it's 99.9 percent sure and I think that'll be later in the year we start shooting.

It's from the Zap2it interview here - http://blog.zap2it.com/scifi/2008/02/an-interview-wi.html

So unless he's deliberately being deceptive Ianto's not dead
pinkalarmclock
Mar. 18th, 2008 04:09 am (UTC)
No way.
I think Ianto is probably either the second (to Jack) or THE most well-liked character on Torchwood, so killing him off? Not likely.

Also, the team would probably go into caffine withdrawl, meaning whatever alien pops in for a visit next will take over Earth without a peep from our team.

Serves them right for allowing Ianto to die :P

Em xXx

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